A court of mortals has finally proven that a deity was born in a place called Ayodhya ( thousands of years ago) exactly on the spot where a mosque was built centuries earlier.
A deity believed by many followers of Hinduism to be only a ‘mythological character’.
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A joke indeed. Hopefully, it should be corrected in the Supreme court.
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I had ‘expected’ a long article by you on the verdict…but good..no use flogging a dead horse.(Justice delayed..justice denied..it otherwise was DENIED).Case closed.
very correct.. justice was delayed..justice was denied..as well as “a joke” too..
the court verdict should have been correct & acceptable..if it would have disallowed any Non-Hindu building in the whole Ayodhya region..just like vatican and mecca.
//A deity believed by many as only a ‘mythological character’.//
many other religions being preached in this world too are believed by many as farce..
Anonymous,
Farce – perhaps by the followers of ‘other’ religions. In this case it is Hindus calling their deity a mythological character. As far as I know, sometime back the Indian government had that stance in a legal battle too.
Rehan,
The gist is actually very retarded. Didn’t feel the need to dwell on the details.
Palia,
Can the Supreme Court also prove the ‘birthplace’ of a ‘god’ ?
The Supreme Court does not prove; it makes a judgment on the basis of available credible evidence. Whether it was Ram’s birthplace is a near impossible fact to ascertain; the easier one is who owns the titles to this piece of land. The SC is a body which will, I believe as an Indian citizen, go by the Constitution and not by the whims of the perpetrators of religions. It is then for the Government to ensure that it is ready to contain any possible backlash.
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Its true face of Hindu India,u cant get worse than this.
It’s a shame really. But it’s also a reflection of where the muslims world stands. Don’t think the indian govt. even expected the reaction to be so numb.
Very apt judgment if India wasn’t secular !!
A Hindu judge sworn to a secular constitution did not have the right to giver a verdict based on his personal beliefs about the birth place of a “god”, if that is what he did.
But probably the best judgment involving any religion over the fight of “this is my god’s land not your god’s land” category. We have so many of these childish fights around the world with no way to prove in a court whose god was the rightful owner of the land.
Hammad,
The reaction should’nt have been aggressive in any case. After going through persecution for 60 plus years, the minorities perfectly understand their position as far as ‘protest’ is concerned. Ultimately , they would’ve had been the ones paying the price of aggressive protests or any protests at all.
Yes , there would’ve had been a reaction had they won the case. India might have been bathing in blood by now if they ruled against the Hindus. So the verdict was more of a ‘compromise’ than ‘justice’ really. 1/3 land to the Muslims doesn’t make any sense. If the place was indeed where their god was ‘born’ , they shouldve taken it all. So it’s more of a topi drama to keep all the parties happy – ofcourse in the name of ‘justice’.
Shameful is not perhaps their silence but the talks of ‘contributing’ to the temple – by certain sections of the Indian Muslims- that will most probably be built now that the verdict is out.
Salman,
The judgement proves that India is NOT secular.
umm no.. take my request and really give a second thought to that.. thats too big a claim to make.. or I’ll have to curse our Pakistan Studies teachers “again” :P
this particular gentleman was very wrong in his verdict .. but this gentleman was not India.
I can personally vouch for India’s secularism as I’ve had a chance to study for a couple of years in an Indian school.. And I still have my text books on history, civics and social studies with me to prove ..
I personally feel the verdict was the best possible .. a verdict had to be given that did not benefit one god or the other.. the verdict itself was very secular .. That particular judge should not have involved his personal beliefs into the judgment though.. the reasons for the judgment should have been impartial… The judge played into the hands of the Hindu extremists there …
It would have been non-secular had the judgment been in favor of the Hindus entirely like you mentioned… then it would have been based on the reason Ram was born there !
@hammadmateen:
It is actually those still protesting Muslims who should have been ashamed of Babar building a Mosque over the ruins of a temple, which has been agreed to in the case by all parties, and that has been the reason for the “numb” response !
I don’t think any self respecting Muslim should be part of the protest … and the Muslims who are ashamed of their own history, they only deserve respect .. I don’t see how it is shameful of them to contribute to the temple, if the Hindus are themselves ready to not take all of the land which they deserved according to what Islam says, at least.
Salman,
That’s another funny part btw. A ‘secular’ court ruling what is ‘islamic’ and what is not.
Yes it is – After being killed in thousands for a ‘disputed area’ at the hands of the ‘state’, it is shameful on the part of this very tiny minority from amongst the minority Indian Muslims to contribute in making a temple for a mythological character.
And no I don’t buy India’s secularism argument.I have not studied in schools that teach against India in ‘Pakistan studies’ classes. I know for a fact , which many ‘Indians’ know too, that the ‘secular’ state has been involved in many beastly activities until a few years back. Congress is different. But then they are blamed for ‘appeasing’. So it is either murder or appeasing. So not ‘secular’.
India being secular is as funny as Pakistan being ‘Islamic’.
Also , I must add that I am not bothered about the mosque as such. We have millions of mosques around the world. I have a problem with the way the issue has been handled. This issue is a ‘bloody’ one.
Here you go : http://www.hindustantimes.com/History-chaptered-in-saffron/Article1-454715.aspx
and
and
Not to forget the ‘vande matram’ controversy.
Thank you.
@Natasha:
Those text books in Rajastan got changed in 1998 !! And India, the Hindu fascist regime of over two dozen states, got independence in 1947 !! I must say those are some very efficient fascists. With that speed, they will take over India in about two dozen centuries.
“state” is state policy. A biased decision towards any religious group could not be made in parliament, or a verdict given in court. That is what makes them secular.
The state apparatus and mechanism eventually sorts things out unbiased of any religion, as has happened with Ayodhya and has been happening with the controversial text books even according to the article you point at.
And the “system” is secular EVEN when prominent leaders are not. EVEN when they have goons to help force their opinions.
Even China has had to face serious condemnation due to their heavy handedness against minority groups, including Muslims (about which we, their brothers, are shamelessly mute).
Why doesn’t India, the Ultimate Hindu fascist country get the world’s attention ?? Because there is nothing substantial, other than the Pakistan Studies point of view.
And save a few Hindu fascist types, Indian Muslims don’t view Kashmir as an assault on “Muslims”, .. I didn’t get that connection .. that is also only a Pakistan Studies point of view.. Kashmir is a localized problem, aggravated by the “neighbour” according to everyone in India.
Where did Kashmir come from bhai? Like you started talking about Vietnam while dicussing Palestine?
The fact is that the second largest political party in India has a fascist agenda that they have persued , are persuing and wish to persue when in power.
And since youre justifying India’s secularism based on BOOKS , I gave you some examples , the 98 one and the more recent from 2009- 2010.
I am talking about what is in practise rather than what the constitution says.
Ok.. this would go nowhere if I keep talking about the “state” being secular, and you keeping “proving” that one political party is not secular ..
Your own links show that the recent(1998!) events, in the context of India’s 60+ years belong to one group that is trying its best to go AGAINST the “state” in implementing their ideology. They are enough to prove my stance themselves.
I have yet to come across a case of killing of Muslims under some Hindu pretext sanctioned by the state, or even covered up ?? We have like the ones in killing non-muslims for burning Quran copies or uttering words against Muslim sacred personalities. We have plenty of examples too.. Zia era was full of practiced, court ruled sanctioned killings for the protection of Islam.
When they come in power, they try to do whatever they can, but they have to back it up with their goons, because they HAVE to go against the state ! Remember Lal Masjid ?? That is how you go against the state. You need gundas to implement your ideology ! Was Lal Masjid take over of the children’s library the state’s take over ??
Groups holding power to go against the state EXIST. That is the only “fact” you highlighted. And I never denied that.
And you mentioned some “disputed area” where the “hindu fascist state” killed thousands of “Muslims”.. I thought you were talking about Kashmir…
Oh no , if you pay a little attention to what Im saying before blasting out with irrelevant stuff , we’ll save a lot of time. Relax!
The disupted site was AYODHYA( We are discussing Ayodhya –remember?) And the state sponsored killing of thousands was Gujrat and the killings that immediately followed the demolition.
I have already talked about Congress being secular and that they are called ‘appeasers’ for following their secular agenda. And im sure you understand THEY have not been in power ALL these 60 years and WILL NOT continue to rule India FOREVER.
Also , BJP the ‘fascists’ are still in control of parts of India if not the centre. You didn’t see that MP youtube link? That’s not 98 dear Salman. That’s present time , while Congress is till in rule in the centre. And you really need to learn about the state-sponsored genocide and the ‘coverups’. Google and youtube will help.
Now you bring in Laal Masjid? What the? Can’t you just stick to the topic? Have I mentioned my views anywhere about the lal masjid issue? If you want to argue by COMPARING Pakistan and India , there can be no argument. You go off the track and come up with the most absurd comparisons. There’s not much left to argue with you.
Now I repeat again , since it was YOU who tried to prove India’s secularism based on (out of ALL the things) TEXT BOOKS , I gave you those links. If you think secularism is all about what they teach you in text books , well what can I say about how you look at things. Text books change , like they did , like they HAVE , like they WILL.
India is SECULAR on paper like Pakistan is ISLAMIC on paper. Please try understanding this argument.
ok.. we don’t disagree on much..
I wasn’t “comparing” India and Pakistan.. I was giving you an example of what you can blame the “state” for and what you cannot, and most importantly WHY.. I just didn’t have an example from Sao Paulo Islands :S
If someone can do something in a country without the help of their goons, then you can blame that on the state.. otherwise, the state will (try to) fight the goons (to the best of its ability)..
thats really all that you disagree with me on.. you refuse to see why they need to use terrorism to impose their ideologies.. and still insist on calling the “goons” the state !!
How is the “state” non-secular.. if “goons” are required by those sanghats and senas ..
I should repeat: if you see “goons” in a “state”, you don’t have to do any “analysis” of the situation.. no examples or proofs are needed.. the “goons” are the proof who the “state” is..
practically, yes the “state” might NOT have the ability to fight all goons at all times, its a fight, not magic.. the state has no choice but to use the “system”.. and the system gets criticized and corrected.. to eventually win..
that paper thing is not an argument.. its a statement of frustration at the lack of the state’s dominance.. Allah ka shukar ada kertay hain when you see people requiring goons.. it means there’s still hope :)
Lord Ram is as mythological as Prophet Mohammad. :)
Prophet Mohammad is as much a reality as Jesus.The World KNOWS it.
About Ram, it’s his ‘followers’ who aren’t sure about his existence. Forget the world :)
//Lord Ram is as mythological as Prophet Muhammad//..children have similar statements in their arguments when they have no juice left..like, “Jo kehta hai vohi hota hai”.